We
continue our interview with Lee Falk (1911-1999),
creator of the Phantom and Mandrake the Magician, first conducted
in 1996.
What did you think of
the Mandrake radio show?
It was
pretty good. I had nothing to do with it, because I was in the Army. They had
permission, of course. But it was rather good. I met the man who played
Mandrake in the Army.
Raymond Edward
Johnson?
Raymond
Edward Johnson! He was a very distinguished stage actor, he played Jefferson on
Broadway. I met Ray when I was a
corporal in the Army, down in Virginia. He was kinda a blue guy when he got in
the Army. He had already done Mandrake. I pulled him in, and helped him get
through his first few days of military life.
Johnson was
one of these very successful radio actors who would do maybe half dozen shows a
day, going from one studio to the next.
He was one of the few who did that. He was also the host of Inner
Sanctum. He was a very successful stage actor, too. He then got Muscular
Dystrophy. And over the years, I just lost track of him.
Last time I
saw him was at the Friends of Old Time
Radio Convention, out in Newark, New Jersey. They have them every October.
Now you see, I was also a theater director, and this convention invited me over
to direct a recreation of the old Mandrake radio show. And Raymond Edward
Johnson, it turns out, is a favorite of these people! He's wheeled out on a
bed, and he can't move at all, except for his head a little. So they prop this
script up in front of his bed, and we did Mandrake that way. He was amazing;
his voice was so strong and so good! He sounded exactly the same. His mind was
still sound, after all these years. He is just an amazing man.
Now what about the
Mandrake movie serial?
I didn't
like it. That was also made when I was in the Army, by Columbia. In those days,
I was told later, that Republic made much better serials. At the time, I
thought Columbia was the bigger name. But Columbia bought both Mandrake and the
Phantom. I had nothing to do with it. King Features acted as my agent through
all of that, and they paid a little royalties, very little. I remember I came
back on a three day pass to see some of them, and thought Mandrake was just
terrible. There were some good actors in it, oddly enough, Warren Hull played
Mandrake, a good actor at that time, and Lothar was reduced in size to about
five foot seven! He wore a turban to make him Egyptian, instead of a tall black
man. There may have been some race thing going on there, I don't know.
But it was
badly and unimaginatively done. Here you have a magician, an illusionist. And with
trick photography you could've done things, made chairs move across the floor,
all kinds of things even without the present technology, to sell the idea of
magic and illusion. But they didn't. It became a cops and robbers thing, with
lots of automobiles chasing round, and all that. Mandrake didn't even wear a
mustache, and that disappointed me. I thought they just did a bad job, though
Hull was a good actor.
Mandrake is one of the
most impressive looking characters in comic strips. Look at him, and you think
of Warren William, or young John Barrymore.
You're so
right! Those are the men I wanted to play him in the movies. Warren William was a matinee idol of
that period, and he would've been perfect. Same for Douglas Fairbanks Jr., there were quite a few of them who could've
done it. It would've been wonderful at that time. I know Doug Fairbanks, by the
way. He's now close to 90, and still upright. He's terrific.
I just ran into him at
a festival honoring Buster Keaton, and he looks just remarkable.
Isn't he,
though? He still has his charm, as
always. Charming and bright, a very gracious man. My wife directed him
something, and was friendly with him, and she always thought he was an
enchanting man.
Didn't Fellini plan to
make a Mandrake film at one point?
Yes, he
did. He loved Mandrake. I first met Fellini, when he was 17. When I first came
to Italy, I was in my early 20s. Mandrake was already established in Italy. I
went to visit the publisher in Florence, just to say hello. They didn't put him
out in newspapers, but in big albums, in Italian.
This
publishing house originally was created by the man who did Pinocchio. Collodi, was his name, I think. Based on the success of
Pinocchio, they created a little publishing house. Then they put out Mandrake,
and later, the Phantom. So when I went there, I met this little group of 15
people, or so. One of them was a 17 year old Fellini. Years later, I didn't
remember him, but he always remembered me, the young American cartoonist, he
would not forget that. Years later I returned to Italy, and I, of course,
later, I knew who he was by reputation. And we met again, this is the early
1960s, and we became good friends. I saw him whenever I was in Rome, and he'd
visit whenever he was in New York. And for years, he wanted to make a Mandrake
film. Every time I saw him, he brought it up.
But there
were always conflicts. Mandrake, at the time, was optioned by somebody else. Or
he was otherwise busy. And this went on for thirty or forty years, and somehow,
it just never got made. He wanted Marcello
Mastroianni for Mandrake, he wanted Claudia Cardanale for Narda, which I
thought was marvelous. When he died two years ago, I hadn't seen him in several
years. But a lady named Chandlers wrote of very good biography of him, called I,
Fellini. For 12 years she taped his talk, and the whole book is just his talk.
A fascinating book. She told me that just a few months before he died, he was
still talking of doing a Mandrake film. It never happened, and I'm so sorry
about it. I remember that people, at the time, told me, that if he did it, he'd
change it. And I'd say, any changes he made would've been for the better!
He said
Mandrake influenced him very much. He loved the whole world of illusion. His
second film is called, The White Sheik,
a very funny film. It's based on an Italian tradition of comic strips, where
there are illustrated stories, illustrated with photographs that have dialogue
balloons. It's a terrific film.
What was the origin of
The Phantom?
The Phantom
is combination of Tarzan, I grew up on Edgar Rice Burroughs, and also Kipling's
Jungle Book. In fact, I sort of paid homage to that by calling The Phantom's
pygmy friends The Bandar, which comes from the monkey tribe who were friends
with Mowgli.
Was he an evolution
for you, or did you create him complete and whole from the start? The whole
myth of The Ghost Who Walks and The Man Who Cannot Die...
That all
evolved. In the very first six months of it, I had a playboy named Jimmy
Wallace, who at nights was The Phantom. He had a girlfriend named Diana, who
The Phantom later married, some many years later. The original stories were
about pirates, somehow this young heiress Diana got involved, and The Phantom
was a Mystery Man who came at night and helped her. Then she'd dream about him
during the day, never dreaming it was her old pal Jimmy Wallace who was just a
friend. She was nice to Wallace, but that's all.
It started
that way. And as it went on, I got the idea of a Jungle Man. I changed it
without telling the reader! Jimmy Wallace just disappeared. And here was The
Phantom, running through the jungle. Later on, I gave him a horse, and I just
thought of him as a modern Tarzan. Gradually, the idea of the generations of The
Phantom, where each successive son become The Phantom, creating the myth of a
deathless avenger, and the stuff about the Skull Cave, all evolved in the first
year.
I was just
in Australia for two weeks during the filming of The Phantom movie, on The Gold
Coast. This is The Phantom of 50 years ago.
He's a character with
a very mythic quality.
Exactly.
This is not accidental. Part of my reading was The Tales of Gods and Heroes, which is all about the mythic heroes
of Western Europe, and also India and Asia. You see, The Phantom has always
been the Number One adventure strip around the world, in terms of distribution
and readership. And people continually ask me why. I hope that it's maybe
because it's good. But I also think that people of various countries, and he's
published in 25 languages, all have their own myths and heroes. And they all
identify with The Phantom, because he's some of the old myths and legends
modernized.
In one
Phantom story, for example, I put him through the 12 tasks of Hercules. I had
The Phantom do this in modern times, and that's the kind of things I do to keep
him fresh. I update the tales of myths and heroes, and legends.
Another
thing that kept him fresh was the idea of the generations of The Phantom. This
is now the 21st Phantom. But I could always go back and tell stories of the
first Phantom, or the tenth, and so forth. This gives me a lot of range. In
fact, The Phantom almost stopped after the second Phantom. This was when the
first son was sent out of the jungle, and back to the country of his mother, in
this case, England. There, he was to be educated by monks. But the young man
ran away and joined the Globe Theater
in England to become an actor! So he ends up in the opening night of Romeo and
Juliet, where he played Juliet! You see, they didn't allow women on stage in
Shakespeare's time, and young men played women's parts.
His father,
meanwhile, was a macho, big, powerful guy, comes roaring over there for the
opening night, with Shakespeare shivering in the wings on opening night. The
Phantom has the courtesy not to break up the show, but after the performance he
goes backstage, pulls the wig off his son, and says: "You're coming back
to the jungle with me!"
The son
refuses, and the father goes back without him. He stays for awhile and becomes
an actor, and then the father is fatally wounded, and the boy is sent for. He
returns to the jungle, and goes through the ceremony and becomes the second
Phantom. Blood is thicker than water.
What a terrific story.
I've done
stories about all 21 Phantoms, I guess.
Now The Phantom is the
first costumed hero in comic strips, right?
Yes, he is.
He was number one. This was in 1936. There were a whole slew of them
afterwards. I think Batman came
about three years later. A lot of young
guys around read The Phantom, and it inspired them, I think. Batman is almost a
take-off on The Phantom, what with the Batcave and the Skull Cave, and so forth.
Of my two
strips, Mandrake was always harder to do. He is fantasy, and originally, he was
the bigger of the two strips worldwide. Then gradually, The Phantom took over
and became much bigger than Mandrake. Fantasy, as you may know, has a limited
appeal to the realistic, and The Phantom, while he seems like a fantastic
fellow, is a very realistic person. And the stories are more realistic, about
real people. He's a remarkable hero. In all the 60 years I've done him, he's
never shot anybody, never wounded anybody.
I was
always against too much violence in comic strips. Some of the more recent ones,
through the years, comic books particularly, which I've read from World War II
on, got very rough.
I think they are too
rough, and the whole industry's a mess.
They've
brought out all of these things! They're drawn very well, but the writing is
disturbing in most of them. There're exceptions, of course, but the gore is
inexcusable.
It's inexcusable, and
it seems to take all the fun out of it.
I think so.
I think they're just awful, and they get wilder and wilder trying to get story
ideas. A friend of mine was doing the inking on one of them; you had four or
five guys lying down that the Punisher
has knocked down. He then shoots them all in the head to make sure they're
dead! They're just unbelievably bad.
More Lee Falk tomorrow!